Posts by Alligator Wisdom

75

I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

what is this some kind of promotion?

after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

Alligator Wisdom

Hi Jayhawk1, thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

You wrote : I care. They say everything they teach is bible based and comes from Jehovah, do they not? So you had better believe I care if it doesn't.

What I meant when I asked "Who cares what the WTS teaches if it isn't from the Bible?" is that those who are confident of their relationship with Jehovah God shouldn't let a human organization faze nor dictate their faith. In fact, shouldn't it work the other way around? Maybe you can attest to the fact from your journey and experience. When we see the fleshly and meager human efforts that the WTS maybe putting forth, wouldn't that make us rely more on what is far more reliable and trustworthy?

The WTS may make the claim that they teach Bible based doctrine and it comes from Jehovah, but can't anyone do so? The Bible along with the Holy Spirit are what Jehovah God uses to help us follow Christ, not the WTS. Sorry if I made you feel badly from how I word things. I know that you care because you are seeking the truth. So am I. But should we be overly concerned what the WTS teaches if it isn't from the Bible? It would be like hearing dish soap commercials. Yes, aren't they always new and improved and far better than their leading competitors. That's what these dish soap companies always say. I, for one, am not overly concerned nor does it have any bearing on how I wash dishes. I might prefer one or the other. I might even change brands if it suits me. Only the results will help me make the decision. Yes, only the results from Jehovah will help me follow the path the he gave us thru his Son Christ Jesus (John 14:6).

I've been taught since I was a small child that if you don't buy in 100%, you are not going to be saved. I'm just wondering how you do it.

Who taught you that? What exactly did those ones use as a basis for such reasoning? Human opinion or the Bible. Share that with me. How do I do it you ask? Good question. I always have to face life itself and the many challenges that somehow appear, but I don't try to dwell on human organizations or ideas. That would set me back. My quest is to worship Jehovah God in "spirit and truth" (John 4:24) and to love him entirely (Mark 12:30). If I focus on the God of the Bible, than other things seem a bit more simple or clear and relieves much complications. Remember, everlasting life is guaranteed. What are such petty things as what the WTS teaches in comparison to the real life mentioned at Timothy 6:19. Jehovah will take care of everything. If I know that, than I can do it.

I acknowledge and welcome the honesty and candor of many of the posters on this board. I felt that I was shown a certain amount of respect on here regardless of what I believe. Of course, that doesn't really matter in the big picture as I would like to find what is important to Jehovah as what should really be paramount to me.

Best Regards,

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

75

I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

what is this some kind of promotion?

after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

Alligator Wisdom

Good morning all! (Where I'm at it's morning). I couldn't believe that I stayed up almost until 4:30am or so on the forum last night. Yikes! But the topic was interesting.

AlanF asked : Knowing that Witness leaders have committed a number of serious crimes against the JW community and are not about to repent, do you think that they have God's approval?

Whether or not they repent or make admissions would be up to them and not for us to say that they will not. That is between them and God Almighty. I personally don't think it should concern me if they have or get God's approval or not. Should it really? That again, is between them and God Almighty. What does God care if I think the WTS should burn or if I think that they should be extended mercy? Who am I? What really matters is what Jehovah God thinks. Not me. He will approve or not thru his Son Christ Jesus as judge. I will be happy with the final decision of God. It will be just and fair. Besides, this matter applies to all of us as we are all subject to God's favor and approval on an individual basis (Romans 14:12).

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

75

I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

what is this some kind of promotion?

after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

Alligator Wisdom

So how does any of you who go, do it? Do you realize how much time you are wasting putting on an appearance for an orginization that could care less about you?

Jayhawk1, maybe some are putting up appearances and maybe some aren't. Maybe at times during the meetings some agree with everything and some don't. Do you believe everything that you listen, read or see in your daily affairs in life? I'm sure you have to make that determination. So will all those who are still attending meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses. Each Christian is a free person and can behave as such (1Peter 2:16) as long as they don't make it an excuse to sin. Apparently that is what you did. You made a decision and followed up on it. Great! So each of us has the right to do so and can make our own assumptions on what is being taught. Really though, who cares what the WTS teached if it isn't from the Bible?

Some might be wasting their time. But we can't say all are wasting their time. That would be lumping together everyone unjustly.

If you read the Guardian newspaper but I found it to be a fallacy and tried to convince you otherwise to read the Hearald Tribune or were to tell you it was a waste of time, what would you say? Would it be fair for me to say the all readers of the Guardian newspaper are wasting their time? No. Some may enjoy certain articles, pehaps the food section, the comics, the editorials or even the classified ads. They may deem the newpaper reliable even though I might feel otherwise. Yes, they might have to purchase the entire paper just to get the articles they find delightful. Do you actually read the entire newspaper yourself? Can I safely say that you have certain interests on some portions and will neglect the other parts of the paper altogether. However, if you didn't find the need for the newspaper at all, then you would discontinue your subscription, right? Apparently that is what you did with the WTS. Nobody could have convinced you otherwise, right? You made that choice. Great!

Some who are attending meetings may be getting some benefit that we don't see or understand. Some are attending for family reasons. Some enjoy the utterances of the WTS. Some gain a different perspective of religion or God or the Scriptures. Each has their personal reasons. I don't think every single one has the same. At least I don't.

Best Regards,

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

75

I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

what is this some kind of promotion?

after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

Alligator Wisdom

AlanF,

Thanks for directing your replies to my specific question.

That you were taught a more reasonable view is unusual. Perhaps it's due to your location, or perhaps to a few individuals whose views differed from those of the Society itself.

Perhaps. Though I was raised a JW in the USA for most of my life, I am now living 7000+ miles away and still find that some individuals in the congregation locally have views that differ. We always use the WTS publications, but it was only the basis for the meetings. What we felt and understood was sometimes unanimously agreed upon or sometimes we were at odds with points. These were, of course, brought out and discussed after the meeting on our own private time. I don't recall anyone making it an issue. Why? Our personal relationship with Jehovah God thru Jesus is what is taught from the Bible. The WTS may have its unique teachings, but it doesn't mean that it is infallible. Like I said, there are some in my former and current congregation that really don't care what the WTS teaches if it isn't from the Bible. And yes, some are elders, pioneers and even Gilead graduates.

That is why I don't try to tend and label the WTS and JW as the same. They aren't no matter what the WTS says. If we think they are, then we have fallen into the mindset of the WTS. I have seen and experienced that it would be foolish on my part to do so. I wouldn't dare say that JWs (as a group) are completely united in thought or beliefs. Believe it or not, there are differences in understanding or opinions among JWs when in comes to WTS doctrine. I'm sure that you already know such from your experience or investigation. Didn't you ever hear the word "doubt" come up in your dealings with individuals who are witnesses of Jehovah in pertaining to the teachings of the WTS? It isn't a sin nor a reason to be disfellowshipped when a person doubts.

True, some JW believe every utterance from the WTS. I don't blame them. Call them victims if you will. But each of us is responsible and can grow and can worship Jehovah in "spirit and truth" if that is our quest. Jehovah God will see to that.

But the majority of JWs around the world are of the opinion that categories (1) and (2) are the same, and so to question "Jehovah's organization" is to question Jehovah himself. That's the reason disfellowshipping for disagreeing with the Watchtower Society exists. In other words, this whole nonsensical view comes from the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses, not from individual rank and file JWs.

Perhaps the majority do think so. But as you and I can agree, this reasoning or explanation trickles down from the WTS (leaders of the religion they call Jehovah's Witnesses) and not from the individual worshipper of Jehovah God.

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

9

Bethel Layoffs: Any personal experiences?

by under_believer in

jw
friends

1) any bethelites who have been laid off who would like to share their experiences/impressions?

2) anybody know any bethelites who were laid off who'd like to tell the story?

3) anybody go to a congregation that has had one of these laid off bethelites assigned to it?

Alligator Wisdom

Apparently this is effecting the U.S. Branch only.

The region where I'm currently living in hasn't had any Bethel/Branch layoffs...............................yet.

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

27

How do you anticipate the Watchtower's fall?

by JH in

jw
friends

slowly and progressively, or rapidly after a specific date?.

Alligator Wisdom

A good possibility is that it may eventually splinter off into factions.

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

24

Is It true what they say about you?

by OUTLAW in

your all apostates!..every last,god forsaken,one of you..you`ve left jehovah..thats why your all,so unhappy!

!...outlaw

Alligator Wisdom

IMO,

anyone who says that they are happy, happy, happy all the time would probably be the village fool.

We all have concerns, anxieties and problems. Some more than others.

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

75

I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

what is this some kind of promotion?

after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

Alligator Wisdom

Hi AlanF and thanks for your reply/explanation.

Sorry if my expression wasn't clear to you.

: I grew up and lived as a JW for 35 years. Never did I think that the WTS and JWs are the same in any way, shape or form. I felt that my relationship with God was personal with him only, regardless of it being close or not. Hence, a JW. There is no mistaking that, in my testimony.
Here you seem to be switching from "JWs" to "God" without a pause.

"Hence a JW" = meaning a witness of Jehovah. My relationship with Jehovah God was personal and didn't include the WTS in any manner.

I really do think you're confused, so let me give you a bit of history.

I appreciate the time and effort it took for your detailed explanation. I am aware of most of the facts that you are telling me. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear and I apologize if the question I asked seemed hazy. (I'm the Far East and the time now is in the wee hours of the morning. Yes, burning the midnight oil).

What I'm was trying to ask was that if any here think that the WTS and those who call themselves JW are the same? I feel that I'm a JW, but not a part of the WTS in my relationship with God. Even though the WTS may claim to have the Religous order of JW and the Christian congregation of JW, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are JWs. The WTS can even say that they are JW, but then again, anyone can make the claim.

All the futile attempts of Russell, Rutherford, Knorr and the old gang in their lengthy explanations trying to gather men for themselves isn't well hidden. Who would actually believe that God spoke only thru the WTS and that the Society were the equivalent to God? Inquiring minds wouldn't. And yes, I know of many JW who don't believe what the WTS teaches. If it isn't in the Bible, then it doesn't hold water. The Holy Scriptures are the authority in any teaching.

An individual who is a witness of Jehovah God (JW) isn't a Watchtowerite (WTS member). The head office in Brooklyn may claim otherwise, but it isn't true. How can man be the intercessor between humans and God Almighty? Impossible. Only Christ the King is.

Who really cares what the WTS teaches if it isn't in the Bible?

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

21

whats it all about?

by andyg in

my mum used to be a jw, she was baptised after about 3 years and carried on for about another 2. she first started taking me to the meetings when i was about 8, and carried on week after week until she was disfellowshipped (she went a bit mad and left home, but that's by the by).

the point is im 21 now and trying to make sense of the stuff i was brought up with for 5 years.

if anyone could shed light on one or two things i'd be most grateful (and some of it i might have wrong anyway).. - before noah's flood, all animals were vegetarian.

Alligator Wisdom

what is meant by WTS?

Watch Tower Society

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)

75

I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

what is this some kind of promotion?

after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

Alligator Wisdom

Confession said : I also know that this organization (managed by the Watchtower Society) very definitely teaches that there is no legitimate faith in God apart from faith in them.

Thanks for your reply even though I didn't want to hijack this thread.

I refused eldership twice because of what the WTS teaches on certain matters along with my personal relationship with God.

I was taught from the age of 5 years old being raised as a JW that being a servant of God was a personal one. Regarding the quotes that you kindly posted, I am well aware of. What Christian of any demonination would believe that? That includes many of JWs that I know. From what I was taught from the Bible and from my congregation was that Jehovah uses a "channel of communication (true, whether it be an individual, the Bible, HS or a group/organization), but that Jehovah also can use any channel he wishes. It may be outside our perception, which may include the WTS angle or stand.

Many JWs know that some of what the WTS teaches just doesn't fit into the Bible. Yes, many do! You feel/felt the same and so do most of those who post here. I myself am included. Who really can seriously believe what the WTS teaches if it isn't in the Bible? A Christian with a pure motive is what matters to Jehovah in that we follow Christ as our Leader. The WTS may print things, but it is up to each individual to "make sure of all things" (1Thessalonians 5:21).

So, did any of you out there really think that the WTS and JWs are the same? Especially even after reading some of the quotes that the WTS had printed that through an organization is how we may see Paradise? That alone would throw up red flags that being a JW is not the same as being a Watchtowerite. I doesn't matter what any humans say. It only matters what Jehovah says.

Sorry again to SlimBoyFat for highjacking your thread. Perhaps I committed an infraction by violated posting guidline rule #10. (Forgive me)

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)